So I'm asking developers to take a look at this document, or manifesto from Rolf the maker of NLog, and also to join this group to further the discussion on app collaboration.
Personally I think that this is just the beginning. I'd like this to move beyond MIDI into virtual audio and then who knows where it could go.
So please, if you're a music app developer visit this group and read this document.
43 comments:
:-o
This is great. Apps such as the Yamaha Arp and Drum pad, TNR-i and the upcoming Genome MIDI sequencer would be perfect for this. Hope many developers jump on this.
Btw, it would be great if some developers could agree on a set of rules like this, and give it a name "iMIDI" or something, then we would have a standard that we all would know how it works, seing "iMIDI-compatible" apps in the appstore would increase the appeal of those apps.
To answer little machines ? About a standard name....isn't it called core midi. We have had it all along. Apps like funk box,molten,bassline,modrum have been working in virtual core midi channels for a while now.
I do agree that it will be a benefit to all if the devs could just make it a given that these features are going to be added.
These are still very early days of the iPad and iOS. I imagine a time when we will have an "endless" screen display(no black boarder)on our iPads and the processors will be strong enough to handle split screen app running. If this was to become the back door channels will be a start of this. The apps need to be able to talk to each other first before they can be run together on the same screen.
By taking this step Rolf and Audanika are steping up to the plate along with the above developers app I mentioned. When apps like these are built with great features it becomes less of a competitive situation and more like a puzzle situation. We stop looking at it like one app is better. We look at it like one app will complete the next part of the puzzle.
I applaud these guys but I am also aware that it will be a slow process. It's still a pain to get devs to work in audio copy standards. That standard is just another "connection" line of code that the users need to communicate projects and ideas between apps just the same as virtual midi.
I hope for all of us that devs really take iOS music apps seriously. Until then we rely on case by case dedication. If one dev sees it that way or if one dev just wants to make a buck. We really need AppStore support to divide the lines, but that's for another discussion.
This is not the place for this post by me as Rolf has already set up the proper forum for this type of discussion,so I will continue my thoughts over there........not here on the palmsounds board :)....sorry GB freesoul
There's been a lot of progress this summer with virtual ports. When I talked to Audanika in May about adding virtual ports to Soundprism, it wasn't really even on their radar. Now looks like they are leading the charge with Nlog. If other developers follow, iOS music capability could finally approach that of my home studio using Ableton Live and Reason. Keeping my fingers crossed that one of the sequencer apps gets in on the game as well.
@freesoulvw: No, Core MIDI is a framework for MIDI communication with different devices, from Apple. It does not mean that different apps can communicate with each other. What I'm after is that these new features and the proposals in the manifesto should be agreed on as a standard, and given a name, sort of a quality stamp, that other developers could choose to implement or not. Like I'm looking out for apps that have Core MIDI and ACP, it would be great to have a standard for communication between apps as well, that you know fulfills certain criteria.
In the meantime, we will never get a proper DAW that can host plugins (or apps).
Great!
what do you mean with proper daw?
pro tools, logic, cubase?
how boring ...
"iWire" would be a better name than iMIDI I think?
Like "ReWire". :)
"In the meantime, we will never get a proper DAW that can host plugins (or apps)."
Actually I hope we can put off that day as long as possible. I don't want a mini clone of the laptop environment, with touch screen and no keyboard. IOS appeals to me because it is NOT a DAW and plug-in environment. It is more instrument and interface and performance oriented.
Sure it's useful to have sketchpad recording capabilities, and basic coordination between apps, but I hope to see IOS music remain instrument/app oriented and not evolve into a mess of multi-tasking, studio metaphor, battery-sucking plug-in contraptions.
I fear I will be in the minority, though...
@Scott and Anonymous
"Actually I hope we can put off that day as long as possible."
"pro tools, logic, cubase?
how boring ..."
.. And now you understand that you get what you deserve.
I'm not talking about a clone of computing environment, I'm talking about a true expansive musical environment. But eh, if you guys prefer baby apps that are limited to sandboxing and very limited interoperability, I don't have a problem with that, as long as you understand IOS can never be taken seriously until it fixes those issues.
Seriously, you guys would be against an app that could host other apps? You really are dumbasses if that is the case.
If you don't think iOS should be considered now as a "serious" musical platform, you shouldn't be here.
"you guys would be against an app that could host other apps?"
But isn't that what CoreAUDIO would do once it's been developed? You gotta remember that iOS is still in its infancy. :)
the mac appstore doesnt allow plugins,
so we can also forget about the host - plugin thing on ios
i can live with that
but if i can send midi (and maybe audio) in realtime from app to app, there would be no need for the old plugin host thing.
lots of little tools(apps) that do very secific things, with secific interfaces :)
Apple users prefers to pretend that a universal apps that could sequence other apps is not possible.
"But isn't that what CoreAUDIO would do once it's been developed? You gotta remember that iOS is still in its infancy."
You gotta remember that Windows 95 and OSX could do that on their first release day! :D
@Jaybry84
"If you don't think iOS should be considered now as a "serious" musical platform, you shouldn't be here."
I've been hoping IOS would be serious about music since day one.. after three+ years, it hasn't happened yet, and I'm losing hope that it will ever happen.
Its full of nice instruments, but no ways to connect them together.
dont feed the toll
troll
I like how people call troll when they have no other arguments to back their beliefs.
Creationists? lol
i bet you r the same guy i had that pointless argument here before,
this app collaboration thing would be a cool way out of the singulare apps,
which is the point you've choosen to ignore, troll
@lala
Yeah.. I'm totally ignoring that after 4 years into IOS, less than 10 apps can connect together.. WOOHOO!! REVOLUTION!!!
Yeah.. revolution indeed lol
"You gotta remember that Windows 95 and OSX could do that on their first release day! :D".
Very true. But I bet Microsoft (or Apple) weren't expecting a plethora of viruses and trojans to attack their OS's either? iOS is a closed system for very good reason. Jailbroken, you're once again open to all that viral crap.
The corporate market is far more interested in a system that is closed for obvious reasons. If we can innovate to provide apps with Core abilities within a closed system then all the better for everyone? :)
"It's full of nice instruments, but no ways to connect them together."
ACP, jailbreaking for file access, and now this. Three ways there.
"after 4 years into IOS, less than 10 apps can connect together.. WOOHOO!! REVOLUTION!!!"
Wouldn't have been possible with the hardware four years ago. And we're four years into a platform no one guessed would become this popular with music creators. By your logic, Pro Tools should have come out no more than a year or two after personal computers did.
@Tom
"Jailbroken, you're once again open to all that viral crap."
Its funny, the PalmOS emulator requires your device to be jailbroken, just because Apple wouldn't accept it in their store and on their device. They wouldn't accept the app that enabled wireless syncing either. Do you believe these apps are viral crap?
And btw, I never got any viruses on all my windows computer. But I don't have any problems if you live in a dreamworld where every Windows machines are infected and crashes all the time.. just remember its dreamworld though.
And you should also know this is a tired argument that never really stood any grounds. Do you know that even Apple suggest you should use an antivirus with OSX?? I bet you didn't knew that one.
@Jaybry84
"Wouldn't have been possible with the hardware four years ago."
Its funny that you say that, because actually over 10 years ago it was possible. Remember Cubase? Or even Cool Edit Pro?
"Jailbroken, you're once again open to all that viral crap."
Viral crap? Crap like multitasking, customization, file access, useful SMS tweaks, etc., etc.?
What you're open to with jailbreaking are features that Jobs makes non-jailbroken users wait at least a year for.
"Its funny that you say that, because actually over 10 years ago it was possible. Remember Cubase? Or even Cool Edit Pro?"
I'm talking iPhones and iOS here. Thought that was obvious.
@Jaybry94
"I'm talking iPhones and iOS here. Thought that was obvious."
Yes I know, but I always wonder why a 1ghzCPU/512mbRAM iphone is not capable to do the same thing a 1ghzCPU/512mbRAM desktop could over 10 years ago.
Why Apple and Steve Jobs does not want us to use their devices like computers?
The first part I'm not sure about but I can't blame Jobs for it. There are Android devices that outspec iPhones and we know the situation with Android audio, or at least what it used to be until recently.
The second part is, IMO, he envisioned the iPhone as a smartphone for dumb people. I guess he still thinks that way and thinks everyone is gonna accidentally delete a system file. Plus he's an egomaniac.
@Jaybry84
"There are Android devices that outspec iPhones and we know the situation with Android audio"
I completely agree with that. I hope eventually Google will fix that. But I feel the mobile landscape will truly change when Windows 8 will be released (which will run on Arm processors like those found in smartphones).
"he envisioned the iPhone as a smartphone for dumb people. I guess he still thinks that way and thinks everyone is gonna accidentally delete a system file. Plus he's an egomaniac."
I wouldn't have said it any better.
you remember when Steven Jobs didn't wanted people to make apps for the iphone because he thought an app could accidentaly take down AT&T's network? :D
Yes, anonymous... It must feel pretty great to think that you are smarter than Steven Jobs, aka "your mean old dad" who won't let you take the car out on Saturday night, just to be a dick. Waa-waa, grow up.
Sorry to the bearer of bad news, but you're not smarter than Steve Jobs and I feel quite confident in saying that you never will be.
didnt i tell u to not feed the troll?
@Timothy
"Yes, anonymous... It must feel pretty great to think that you are smarter than Steven Jobs"
That is truly funny, because it never was about that, but I guess you had a wild time thinking about it.
And BTW, how does it feel to be sure you are dumber than Steve Jobs? Because that's what its all about right?
Good to see the dev group taking stpes to advance our beloved music apps.
I think at this stage of the game you devs need to do this to further advance the platform and ultimately solidify your business.
And from a purely business perspective... you know the guys/gals that make the first step with profit the most from this. It's a great/new feature that everyone will want ... and could very well be the tipping point during the decision process of a customer (to buy or pass)
*** soapbox bickering makes syou look like an idiot annon. Nothing wrong with offering an opinion of course.. It's just that when you do so please keep in mind that everyone has differnet opinions. Postint with this single truth in mind will remove the "idiot" label you are currently wearing on your virtual forehead. I can't believe I even need to explaing this stuff (head shake)
I've got a question for all the trolls and haters:
What exactly do you have against a way for apps to work together?
One that requires zero configuration (Just start the apps you want to connect -> done)?
For which a month after its first demonstration multiple apps will be out there for you to use?
For which you won't have to pay anything because it's going to be a free update to any app that does CoreMIDI already?
And which iOS developers will surely improve over time because it's a STANDARD NON-THIRD PARTY API, since it's provided by iOS?
Support for it cannot be dropped because the people implementing it don't provide the API, Apple does.
So all in all: Someone please explain to me what the problem is. I seriously don't get it. Or I've just been trolled.
I don't think it matters that this hasn't been done before, what matters is that it's happening now, and that devs are getting together to improve how apps can be connected. We can all wish that 'this app had that feature', but the value this connectivity gives is really cool. I am constantly amazed at how the devs listen to feedback and implement ideas. It seems like these people are real programmers and if only from a business perspective, committed to making this whole thing continue to grow. I love the future!
@Sebastian Dittmann (Audanika)
"What exactly do you have against a way for apps to work together?"
I've got nothing against that at all! ... but it would be so much better if we could use apps in a DAW or a host.
This inter-connectivity stuff is fun, but forcing devs to integrate some code to make it work is not great. Its like when Apple introduced multi-tasking : how many apps have truly been updated to support multi-tasking? I have 5-10 apps at most that does true multi-tasking in my iDevices out of 200 apps. All the older apps have been left out, and probably none of them will be updated to support this new interconnect protocol. This is not that great.
Another way to explain my point of view : VST > Rewire
@2Anonymous...:
"I've got nothing against that at all! ... but it would be so much better if we could use apps in a DAW or a host.
"
iOS IS the DAW. Your iPad/iPhone IS the host.
@Sebastian Dittmann (Audanika)
"iOS IS the DAW. Your iPad/iPhone IS the host."
I get your point of view, but I don't agree, and I have 3 years worth of apps that doesn't seems to agree either because they don't work like that.
What I mean by a DAW, is that I would love to be able to use plugins in something like Nanostudio or Beatmaker. IOS by itself is not a piano roll or a sequencer.
No offense but can you PLEASE just give us a month or two and then judge about what's possible and what is not.
I know it's cool to pretend to know the future but it makes you look ignorant (which you are not) when you're disproven within very little time.
Tell us what you want us to do, what you like, what you don't like. We'll listen to it and implement it. Promise!
"if you guys prefer baby apps that are limited to sandboxing and very limited interoperability, I don't have a problem with that..."
That, indeed, is what I prefer. I want applications that tend toward creative instruments and sketchpads, not toward studios and "expansive environments".
My main reason is this: The iPad's small screen and fat-finger interface will quickly be overwhelmed by complex environments. But besides this, I've been interested in using computers for music for >25 years, and the DAW + plug-in orientation has always been a turn-off. Most DAWs are far too complex for casual use and fiddly to set-up with a synth plug-in. On my Ipad, I can just press the "on" button, and with a couple swipes and taps, play an instrument or a beat-box. Fun!
"Seriously, you guys would be against an app that could host other apps? You really are dumbasses if that is the case."
I would not be "against" such an app per se. But I do fear that once a DAW + plug-in format gets popular, that plug-in format starts to displace stand-alone app development and I am back to the situation of DAW setup and customization just to get to the instruments.
I'm probably not a dumbass, either. I have a PhD and design very complex electronic hardware for a living (using mainly Windows PCs and Linux machines). When I turn to music playtime, however, a clean, easy-to-maintain, sandboxed environment is just what I want.
@ScottW
"When I turn to music playtime, however, a clean, easy-to-maintain, sandboxed environment is just what I want."
You could get both if Apple would let an app host other app like a plugin.
Post a Comment